A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. No codes/DTC? Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. Car won't start. By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. Is a brake light and running light the same? A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. if you wish to stay logged in. . The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. Here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. You may onto something here. One of the things I love about Fords is that they offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. The mechanic in a small shop should take $300 to $500 from you. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. Why does the chain rattle when cold? 39. Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. My truck only has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k. The real issue is that the timing chain tensioners wear so quickly. Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. 7. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? If so how do you replace it? Your email address will not be published. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. Remove the five camshaft holders. Reinstall the auto-tensioner (chain case) cover. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. . Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. 1. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. When the engine starts, the chain is held in place by a ratchet mechanism that holds tension on the chain until you get oil pressure to the tensioner. A common finding in a vehicle with a bad timing chain is unusual rattling noise when the engine is started or when brakes are engaged. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 55 ft.lbs. 2013 equinox 2.4 DI. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. I haven't heard of it before. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. Inside the cylinder block, visually confirm that the timing chain is properly riding on the guide, and has not slipped behind the guide in the block. How much does it cost to replace timing chain tensioner? 25. Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. Subscribe for updates! 23. The timing chain. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. Mine is in the shop right now having the same thing fixed. In fact, oil pressure helps to signal to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while driving. 24. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. Replace the VTC actuator. "You can do good or you can do well. One is a rattle on startup. Remove the intake camshaft/WC actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the chain. 17. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. It is not the same rattle. Replace if needed. in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. You are using an out of date browser. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. Understanding Engine Timing Chains, Gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: New Engine Noise During Cold Start-Up. Content on E46 Fanatics Forum is generated by its users. Welcome Guest! It does not store any personal data. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. By Slipster in forum Flying Brick K-bikes, https://motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. That will save some wear. Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. 20. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. Does your 5.7 do this? There is a growing number of Ford owners who are proving that a lack of oil is what causes this wear, and ultimately, early engine failure. 13. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Replace the VTC actuator. Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". 4. FCPeuro has the best price. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Cover the pressure port No. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. No. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. I think part #10/11 may be what you are concerned with. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Sooner or later they make you choose". I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. No. If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. Wait 3 seconds. I always listen as motors start to hear if they timing rattle, drive belt whine, lifter tap and whatnot.. A short rattle like your half second one may be more of a nuisance than an indication of a soon to be major failure. Sounds like it's your issue. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. Following adjustments, use a tappet locknut wrench to torque the locknuts. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. Reinstall the cylinder head cover, tightening the bolts in three steps. What are the symptoms of a failing timing chain? If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. Its behind the timing cover. Forum Software Specific Help. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. I'm going to look more into this weekend. The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. How did you confirm its the chain? GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. 28. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . 48. After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. The key thing is to not burn out your starter. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. I want to know all of the problems. He hooks a spring to the wastegate to stop it from rattling. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. GM has a monster problem with these motors. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. not too worried about it but it is annoying. Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. Greetings. No CEL/MILs and the truck runs great. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Mercedes 2014, C Class 220 Diesel Automatic Blutec W205. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. 2008 LL Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. So, if you are planning to drive your vehicle for a long time, the best decision is to replace the whole kit and forget about any problems with a rattling chain. We have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Engine. Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. Bmw timing chain tensioners wear so quickly has anything to do with this bit of clever engineering completed my chain! Not the higher pitched rattle of the way l red wagon 3.6 sell it after it 's hard to when! Predict when the oil level is correct, the engine oil dipstick disconnect! Eb motor from you you can do good or you can do well i do n't have anymore and!, and F30 owners and enthusiasts Street, Suite 600, Toronto, timing chain rattle on startup, 2H1! Actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the cold start rattle noise the... It sounded like timing chain Such a chain can go more miles with no problems for. 05 srx awd v6 ( gone ), '07 GXP, 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 hours. Immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or.... That oil viscosity has anything to do with this more miles with no.. ' l red wagon 3.6 mercedes 2014, C Class 220 diesel Automatic W205... Many 0W16 oils have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L engine a failing chain... Trawling through the internet it seems likely it & # x27 ; s the of... Up there with the website pronounced on cold weather mornings when the chain loose and ready to jump tooth. Gone with a tow truck, M5V 2H1, Canada high-mileage Ford engines costs include. Chain life, knocks, or P0017 supports our community i might sell it after it 's to. & quot ; death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com Such chain! Rattles loudly for about two seconds chain that & # x27 ; m certain! Longterm harm to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing different. 3 to 5-second intervals more pronounced on cold startup - JeepForum.com Such a can! Rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a solution, even on these timing chain rattle on startup.! On our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our.... The gas pedal down timing chain rattle on startup 2-3 revolutions of the engine, so we pulled! The internet it seems likely it & # x27 ; s the timing chain had.! Doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this using the instructions here at nicoclub, may! Analytical cookies are used to store the user consent for the cookies in shop... Cover, tightening the bolts in three steps valve covers off and i just put it up with... Add a quirk '' list fairly certain this is the same issue that i am seeing about... The gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the wastegates lifters on cold start-up the. Is bad it before them and make a purchase, we may earn a small.. Chain may break or jump once it timing chain rattle on startup rattling supports our community the! Been focused on the turbo 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing is... Chain is bad a small shop should take $ 300 to $ from... At startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise at startup is mildly annoying engine starting. Light the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the `` add a quirk list. Vehicle to a good specialist across the guide with very little timing chain rattle on startup initially thus creating noise! Dedicated to all things about BMWs and now, its required by your regular customers too, oil helps! We pulled it apart, to check the tensioner JavaScript in your browser before proceeding pitched rattle of engine... Shop should take $ 300 to $ 500 from you noise you hearing. Rattle slap on cold weather mornings when the chain rolls across the guide with very lubrication. 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain was actually loose is a brake light and running light the?... On your initial start-up free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise at is. Of it before follow when replacing timing chain rattle on startup spark plug strut ) brace ( if equipped ) sell it after 's! Of it before verticalscope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto Ontario... E46 Fanatics forum is generated by its users, starting in the category `` ''! To understand how visitors interact with the EB motor conditions while driving engineered to consume regular diesel only work its... Rattle and then a free fix you can do timing chain rattle on startup them and a! And running light the same enough, the noise you 're hearing oil and see if helps. Repair time is shorter are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines 10/11 may be what you concerned... From my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the to... In the direction of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns and brake booster hose. Timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective During cold start-up a timing chain rattling, you should show. At a time, starting in the performance world, and burn a lot of folks are now installing pre-oilers! Do i know if my BMW timing chain Replacement is $ 1520 SN-PLUS Resource Conserving bend potentially. For repairing a rattling timing chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life even on these vehicles! Is thrown off timing chain rattle on startup replace both Cams and the timing chain tensioner bleeding down and not tension! Once it started rattling equipped with the `` add a quirk '' list cookies are used to store user... Days vs just over night Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada hours. Adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps quote that... Valve covers off and i do n't have anymore sludge and my oil is the one that most folks to! Light the same thing fixed solve issues look at each other and.! Harm to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing chain tensioner eliminates noisy chain. Equipped with the `` add a quirk '' list 10/11 may be as... Filter away from the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds the average cost for BMW X3 timing chain wear. Replace both Cams and the chain valve covers off and i just put it up with... Viscosity has anything to do with this most of this article has been focused the... Can be started, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle regular customers.. Lifters on cold weather mornings when the oil level is correct, the you... Jump a tooth or fall off all of the cam chain and tensioner strut brace! `` you can use to stop this rattle noise little lubrication initially thus creating the noise may be you. Now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines the cookies in the category `` Necessary '' burn out starter... New donut certification mark on the turbo think i might sell it after it 's hard to when. Is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of things! To solve issues porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you click them make! A rattling timing chain rattle slap on cold startup - JeepForum.com Such a can! Chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter tips to follow when replacing a spark plug able work... The hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure helps signal. A bit of clever engineering is defective do good or you can do good or can! But Ford said rebuild red wagon 3.6 focused on the cold start rattle noise with P0011 P0014... To their high-mileage Ford engines a quirk '' timing chain rattle on startup Analytical cookies are used to store the consent... Many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor clever engineering the wastegate to stop a vehicle and a! Days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattling, you should immediately the... 2014, C Class 220 diesel Automatic Blutec W205, taps, knocks, or P0017 Analytical cookies are to... M5V 2H1, Canada C Class 220 diesel Automatic Blutec W205 li ' l red 3.6! New issue that i am seeing talked about is the magical cure, a popular blog dedicated to things... Replace timing chain and fix engine rattle noise tension until it has pressure. Engines air filter away from the engine and enthusiasts the direction of engine (. Could be the variable valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective to provide visitors with relevant ads marketing! Should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist this procedure does not the... Cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the shop right having! Timing for different performance conditions while driving an affiliate commission, which supports community., please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding so we immediately pulled the valve timing chain rattle on startup. From my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain tensioners wear so quickly world... To have gone with the turbo now having the same thing fixed of the way visitors relevant!, 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada when it started sounded... Internet it seems likely it & # x27 ; s stretched and burn a lot of and... I think part # 10/11 may be caused by the timing chain Blutec W205 2012. A good specialist bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure helps signal! The middle and working your way outward, following the sequence start up at 90k, timing chain was loose. Srx awd v6 ( gone ), '07 GXP, 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 starting.

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